A study among 1000 Americans shows that consumers greatly overestimate the environmental impact of direct mail. DMNews and Pitney Bowes found that respondents ranked the delivery of 10-11 pieces of transactional mail per year as the third most polluting activity (in terms of carbon dioxide emission). Only driving a car 1000 miles a month and the electricity usage for a top-freezer was more polluting.
Whereas in reality advertising mail accounts for 2% of all municipal waste, respondents vastly overestimated this: 48% thought that half of the municipal was advertising mail.
There is obviously a lot of work to do to change this perception. When no action taken the perception of the medium might be in jeopardy.
Consumers seem to be unaware of the sustainability programs of organisations as Forest Stewardship Council (FSC) that promotes sustainable forest management. Over 60% of respondents said they would think more highly of the industry if it planted trees to offset paper production. Such a green label would even make unsolicited mail more positive.
31 December 2007
Shifting channels

Also simple phrases can make viewers shift channels. Dutch research demonstrates clearly the impact of for example a journalist covering daily politics. When he says in a life program " Well, nothing really exciting happened today" viewers zap "en masse". A very floating and expensive audience indeed.
24 November 2007
Quote 2
"The question is whether we need to push our products or push the marketer as he has problems understanding the online market."
Peter de Mönnink, Chief Strategy and Internet Officer Reed Business Global (In Adformatie).
Peter de Mönnink, Chief Strategy and Internet Officer Reed Business Global (In Adformatie).
The Poster Magazine

Great creative and venue
13 November 2007
The Power of Print/Posters

I'm still experiencing that reducing the message to the essence and reproducing it on a poster is a lot more difficult than doing that on an A4 size advertisement.
This contest therefore demonstrates the Power of Print via the medium posters. It is organised by Prospecta and sponsored by Agfa Graphics.
New strong evidence for magazine effectiveness in media mix variants

Recent research of 32 cross-media campaigns across ten categories by Dynamic Logic (a Millward Brown research company) provides strong evidence for the use of a mix of different media. And the important role magazines play in the effectiveness of advertising investments. Magazine effectiveness represent for example 62 % of the combined effect on brand favourability. The research also shows the limited value of online advertising on the five metrics. The incremental effect of the online investment tops at 22% of the combined effect.
This is the second analysis made by Dynamic Logic, I have reported on earlier research (17 cross-media campaigns) in the Sappi publication Life with Print. Comparing both pieces of research the striking decline of effectiveness of online media becomes apparent. Online advertising' share topped at 38% on the brand favourability metric.
It seems that this new research -based upon more cases- includes the effects of diminished newness and therefore attention of online media.
Company documents remain printed
A survey from EDSF indicates that the budget for printed documents (invoices, bills, statements, explanation of benefits) companies use to communicate with clients modestly increases. Almost 43% of respondents of the survey say that the budget for paper-based communications increases by approx. 10%. This despite the fact that more than half of the companies already make more than fifty percent of their documents available over the Internet. Transactional documents will make increased use of digital colour. Half of the companies will increase the use of colour by 5% or more in the future. A new trend in the use of transactional documents is Transpromo, this is the use of colour on documents as bills and statements and integrating selected promotional offers.
EDSF concludes that electronic delivery will only have a limited impact over the next years as firms will have to address legal and compliance requirements and security/privacy issues.
EDSF concludes that electronic delivery will only have a limited impact over the next years as firms will have to address legal and compliance requirements and security/privacy issues.
Mind mapping with Tony Buzan


In the meantime media are already using the technique of mind mapping and showing it in ads to illustrate for example the profile of its radio listeners.
24 October 2007
Magazines increase web traffic

Integrating media and the interaction between media is making media planning a lot more complex and interesting. Understanding the role of print media in this new media landscape goes beyond readership surveys. Tools need to be put in place to trace the path consumers follow after reading.
22 October 2007
One title, one million copies, one country, free

This idea was picked-up by the Dutch and is now organised for the second year. Talking about this years book will not be too difficult with the title "De gelukkige klas". All public library members can receive a free copy like all fourth graders but on the condition that they read it. A total circulation of almost 1 million free books! (A luxurious copy is also available for € 10). Plenty of activities in 100 cities are organised to get people to read and discuss the book. The popular and sometimes clumsy news anchor Philip Freriks is touring with a theater show, 10.000 people can get a book with a blank cover that they can design and a nostalgic train will tour in Holland.
Last year 725.000 copies of the book "Dubbelspel" were handed out, over 1 million people participated in Nederland Leest and public library visits increased with 20%.
A great marketing idea to boost reading and using different media to announce and stimulate talking about literature.
Print Sells campaign launched


This month partners of the United Print Chain launch a pan-European advertising campaign to support the use of print as an advertising medium. The campaign, that runs in 13 European countries, presents print as the perfect medium to build a brand image. The unique combination of partners from the paper, printing and printing machine industry, magazine publishers, Postal Associations and Cepifine allows industry-wide support and a major investment to change the perception of print media.
Very much like the Life with Print programme from Sappi this campaign combines emotional aspects of printed communications with hard facts and cases about effectiveness.
As perceptions will not change during one advertising wave, it is necessary that the Print Sells campaign continues over a longer period. Advertisers and their agencies are, despite what is often believed, conservative decision makers. And we know that advertising works through repetition.
21 October 2007
Systematic creativity?

SIT analysed winning advertising Print campaigns at the Cannes Advertising Festival and came to the conclusion that in 2000 77% could be explained via a SIT tool. In advertising ten creative techniques like extreme result, metaphor, inversion or extreme promise are used to present products. Winning Print campaigns use in 38% of the cases extreme result as technique. Not only does SIT help to be creative and innovative it also helps in analysing creativity. I find it a most helpful tool in my work.
20 October 2007
Illiteracy levels boosts direct mail response

At the Buchmesse cases of new and traditional media integration were discussed. For example launching new children books via SMS and podcast. Creating a community of children and extending the experience of reading a book proved to help stimulating literacy.
Not taking any action could make this threat a self-fulfilling prophecy. Plenty of research indicates the declining number of young people reading printed information. It should become a task of the government, education and the media industry to develop programs to correct this evolution.
There is however also a positive side to this threat; internet savvy young people seem to be more interested in hard copy direct mail. At the DMA congress in Chicago research was shown that relates high internet usage and response rates to direct mail. It all comes down to the long-known advertising adage: surprise people by standing out.
06 October 2007
Inkjet printing into new applications
I was just reading about an interesting new application for the inkjet printing device we all have at home. As the inkjet head can print micron small dots on different surfaces Panasonic has lodged a patent for an electronic spraying device to apply liquids on skin. This could become an alternative way to apply make-up and would allow for sensational make-up effects comparable to airbrush. Buying blush or foundation will never be the same once the product has been introduced!
But inkjet is also going into very different applications. Most of these applications use electronics. And because inkjet heads can print pico millimeters, integrated electronic circuits can be printed. Printing will go beyond simple colour and coatings printing, but will include printing of electronic conductive materials. In this way circuits and sensors can be printed on various substrates.
Probably the best known application is the integration of RFID on paper or film. When I visited the LabelExpo in Brussels this was one of the highlights of the fair. However most of the RFID tags were still made separately and not immediately printed on the substrate. Inkjet printing will allow to do that directly on the substrate offering higher flexibility and smarter paper. This paper can be used to develop smart products like packaging that integrates diodes that light-up when the date for consumption is approaching or paper that is sensitive to pressure or can light up.
It sounds like a science fiction application but is reality: the elaboration of cells, tissues and so called bio paper for veins in medicine
But inkjet is also going into very different applications. Most of these applications use electronics. And because inkjet heads can print pico millimeters, integrated electronic circuits can be printed. Printing will go beyond simple colour and coatings printing, but will include printing of electronic conductive materials. In this way circuits and sensors can be printed on various substrates.

Probably the best known application is the integration of RFID on paper or film. When I visited the LabelExpo in Brussels this was one of the highlights of the fair. However most of the RFID tags were still made separately and not immediately printed on the substrate. Inkjet printing will allow to do that directly on the substrate offering higher flexibility and smarter paper. This paper can be used to develop smart products like packaging that integrates diodes that light-up when the date for consumption is approaching or paper that is sensitive to pressure or can light up.
It sounds like a science fiction application but is reality: the elaboration of cells, tissues and so called bio paper for veins in medicine
05 October 2007
User generated content: earn money or reward readers by publishing their name?

Newspapers are looking at smarter ways to use consumers as a source of information. I read about the Guardian that is looking for experts among the readers as they know that somewhere on the Internet somebody can provide answers. This might be very helpful for example for travel advice. TED, a Dutch multi-media platform for youngsters - offers a mix of user generated content and journalist content for their free newspaper, interactive online platform and TV channel. The free newspaper has a total circulation of 150.000 and is distributed via "ambassadors" at schools. TED uses the interactivity with readers to the benefit of advertisers who want test new products in TED lab. The largest Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf uses a very different model, it set up a dedicated website for local news, opinions and emotions provided by readers. The site WUZ.nl is a continuation of the readers letters item in the printed newspaper. Access to local news is extremely easy: just type in the postal code. Although an interesting initiative this might also fall short in attracting enough readers and advertisers to make it profitable.
Quote 1
"When paper would have been invented yesterday, everybody would have said: great new technology! Unimaginable!"
Olaf Olafsson, author of best selling books and executive VP TimeWarner
Olaf Olafsson, author of best selling books and executive VP TimeWarner
Audi winner of Euro Effie and Sappi Award

The Sappi Award goes to Effie winning campaigns that spent a dominant part of their media mix on print media. The Audi campaign integrates print, TV internet and CRM activities with a 40% budget allocated to print. The campaign demonstrates the increased importance of well planned and structured integration of media. Print and TV to create awareness and traffic to the website and highly personalised direct mail to follow-up visitors of the website. This approach resulted in a 10,2% higher sales result than originally planned. When checking the media strategy from the other Effie Gold winners (Adidas and Nike) the point about integration was confirmed. Both campaigns make use of a broad spectrum of media albeit with a lower percentage allocated to print media. But Nike for example achieved over 800 press articles by a very intense PR campaign. When I talked with Marco Eikelenboom, Sappi's European Marketing and Sales Director, he concluded that these results confirm the efficiency of print media.
Towards a sustainable world

01 August 2007
Murdoch Street Journal
It's done. Rupert Murdoch has bought the Wall Street Journal. Today the Wall Street announced the deal that has led to heavy disputes in the Bancroft family. The Bancrofts hold 64% of the Dow Jones controlling stocks and at least two thirds needed to approve of the deal.
It seems that the take-over by media mogul Murdoch had more to do with US newspaper heritage and media sociology than with finance. (Money was probably no issue with a proposed price of $60 per share that represents a 69% premium to the pre-offer stock price).The WSJ is one of the oldest family owned newspapers in the US and now becomes part of the stable of Murdoch including media brands as Fox News, MySpace, National Geographic, Times of London and many others. And becoming part of a media conglomerate that produces content for the masses was probably the biggest hurdle to take for the family. What will become of the WSJ stature once taken over by News Corp? Can it maintain it's position as one of the worldwide references for financial news? These questions relate to an interesting discussion taking place the the media industry: is popular culture bad for us? Is popularised news bad for readers and viewers? Some two years ago Steven Jonhson published "Everything is good for you. How popular culture is making us smarter". This book like the book from Gust de Meyer (De beste smaak is de slechte smaak) demonstrate that the popular culture of videogames, television (including reality-TV), film and Internet has made people more intelligent. The complexity of the media and content is posing new challenges to our minds that make our minds sharper. Interesting to watch how the WSJ will continue to challenge its readers.
It seems that the take-over by media mogul Murdoch had more to do with US newspaper heritage and media sociology than with finance. (Money was probably no issue with a proposed price of $60 per share that represents a 69% premium to the pre-offer stock price).The WSJ is one of the oldest family owned newspapers in the US and now becomes part of the stable of Murdoch including media brands as Fox News, MySpace, National Geographic, Times of London and many others. And becoming part of a media conglomerate that produces content for the masses was probably the biggest hurdle to take for the family. What will become of the WSJ stature once taken over by News Corp? Can it maintain it's position as one of the worldwide references for financial news? These questions relate to an interesting discussion taking place the the media industry: is popular culture bad for us? Is popularised news bad for readers and viewers? Some two years ago Steven Jonhson published "Everything is good for you. How popular culture is making us smarter". This book like the book from Gust de Meyer (De beste smaak is de slechte smaak) demonstrate that the popular culture of videogames, television (including reality-TV), film and Internet has made people more intelligent. The complexity of the media and content is posing new challenges to our minds that make our minds sharper. Interesting to watch how the WSJ will continue to challenge its readers.
18 July 2007
Google selling newspapers

Google announced last year a test involving 50 US newspapers and a limited number of advertisers to bid online for advertising space. Today the service called Google Print Ads is available for all advertisers and includes over 225 newspapers (combined circulation of nearly 30 million). The Google sales pitch demonstrates the commitment to integrated media campaigns as it presents 4 reasons to consider newspapers as a "important component of any advertiser's media mix". Newspapers give advertisers significant local reach, they reach an attractive demographic audience, they are a key resource for shopping information that drives offline and online purchases and finally newspapers are relevant throughout the entire purchase cycle.
It will be very interesting to see what Google's initiative will do to the top-line and bottom-line results of the participating newspapers. And also to the reaction of the traditional traders in ad space; the media agencies.
16 July 2007
News a la minute

Prior to BBC journalists viewers delivered the news. The newsreaders were reading the viewer reports from the laptops on their desks, apparently without further checking the facts. The news was really brought to you as it developed, and not by a BBC journalist at the spot but by the "consumers".
Although the strength of consumer generated content is clearly demonstrated it also points at a risk. Does opening the door for live consumer input not jeopardise the quality of the BBC brand? When facts are relayed without control to consumers this might influence the status, credibility and value of the BBC brand?
By the way it appears now that the closure of 14 stores and evacuation of hundred of thousands of customers was a reaction to a day of action of an animal rights group.
29 June 2007
Who to trust?
I did a presentation two weeks ago to an international company in Belgium about the impact of Internet channels on their B-t-B media mix. During the discussion we started talking about the way consumers deal with the lack of trust related to news or insights presented via the web. The equation "for free = no value = no trust" holds true for a great number of people. A study from Forrester shows that although trust in traditional media as television, newspapers and magazines reduced over the period 2002-2204 , it is still more than double that of Internet. However consumers develop alternative strategies. When asked who they trust for product information, consumers rate recommendations from friends/family, online consumer opinions and requested email updates higher than advertisements on television, radio or magazines. Other research from Forrester shows that more than 20% of European online consumers sent a link to friends or family and also visited links provided by friends or family. It looks like that word-of-mouth and buzz marketing is the driving force behind the growth of social networks. This could also imply a revival of customer magazines on the condition that customers can participate.
28 June 2007
Sappi launches new booklet in Life with Print series

The Life with Print programme -developed by Frysk- is addressing advertisers, media and creative agencies and underlines the importance of print media as part of the media mix. The programme is used worldwide with emphasis on Europe, USA, South-Africa and Asia. Other booklets in the series are "Direct Mail in the media mix" and "Brochures and Catalogues in the media mix". The booklets can be ordered via LifeWithPrint@sappi.com
14 June 2007
How a logo creates epileptic fits

The much criticised logo for the Olympics to be held in London in 2012 has caused some viewers suffer from an epileptic fit. A short animated sequence in a TV commercial contained rapid flashes of colour that have caused these fits. The London professor Graham Harding, who has developed a specific test on TV images, concluded that the material should not be used any longer because of the risks involved.
Digital and screen printing for large formats surging

I visited FESPA, the world's largest trade show on digital printing for large format in Berlin last week. The increase of 20% in visitors demonstrates the growing importance of (screen and digital) large format printing. I listened to a presentation of Bob Holt (Production Link) and Michel Caza (both members of the FESPA Awards) who showed the available printing techniques with screen print. FESPA introduced an inspiration book on this theme called Sensations. This lavishly produced book shows the possibilities with different inks and special effects.
Most exhibitors presented their equipment live at the booths, which made some of these booths look more like small print plants than a branded environment that creates credibility, trust and above all brand preference. Agfa was one of the booths that stood out with a daring colour coding and presented their recently launched C3 concept.
13 June 2007
More titles launches to maintain total circulation
Finland invests € 10 mio in Innovative Printing project

06 June 2007
Listen to paper

To watch the applications go and watch this video. This 'sounds' very interesting for the paper industry but also for the digital printing industry.
03 June 2007
Prima speech in Helsinki
Listen through a poster
Poster advertising surges

Agfa' longest poster?
17 April 2007
Deciphering ads

Back with large media

On Friday 13 the new Adidas campaign Impossible is nothing was launched in The Netherlands with a huge outdoor poster signed by a fine selection of Dutch sporters. Participants at the Rotterdam Marathon could add their "impossible" to the poster that was strategically located in the center of Rotterdam. Engaging consumers in a large way.
22 March 2007
Prepare elections with a book

10 March 2007
Google Master Plan

The paradox of choice in media planning

Google, Yahoo, MSN and AOL dominate online ad spend in the USA -they have 92% of all spend, traditional media brands go online and online media brands start off-line, the number of television channels and pay per view options increase rapidly, television, video, music and games can be viewed and listened to via different platforms. The choice is inflating.
And the planner has not (yet) the tools to measure all of these new media the way he can with traditional media.
Touching consumers is getting more complicated, less reliable, less effective, more trial-based and above all more expensive. That might explain why certain advertisers decide to stick to the tried and trusted media. Unilever and Heineken announced some time ago that they would do so and recently Gini - a drinks brand from the Orangini Group - also announced that it would shift its media budgets away from television. Television simply requires too much budget to be effectively seen by consumers.
Question is whether the online advertising opportunities will not be doomed to the same scenario. The enormous amount of digital data as estimated by the IDC/EMC research this week illustrates the difficult task of the planner. How can he select the most cost efficient places to promote his clients brands? Today he does so by not choosing - he stays with Google, Yahoo, MSN or AOL.
Martin Lindstrom' extra sense applied

A 1940's style poster for the Sutton ski resort in Canada applies this thought by using scented pine cones and a poster with a "trompe l'oeil" effect. Together with the Sutton beer the brand experience was complete.
Hope they were having any snow this year.
09 March 2007
Mayor Janssens in dialogue with 2% of voters

He "outed" himself as a great believer of one-to-one communication, which was surprising for an ex ad-man having worked on image campaigns for blue-chip clients. He estimated that he answers about 2000 letters a year. All of them are personal. He referred for example to a letter and handmade drawing he had sent to pupils of a local school which generated very enthusiastic feedback from the school. He sees this contact as essential in achieving his goal of creating understanding among the various communities in Antwerp. And acknowledged that the written word in one-to-one communication is probably stronger than an ad campaign.
By the way the award was won by a football club of the third provincial division FC Wieze for a letter to potential supporters.
03 March 2007
Newspapers: more titles and higher circulation

During the period between 2001 and 2005 the number of paid-for dailies worldwide jumped over the 10,000 mark the first time, representing a total circulation of over 450 million copies (+13%). The free newspaper market includes 189 titles with a total circulation of over 28 million in 2005 (+137%). This upswing in circulation includes the decline of one-size-fits-all newspapers. Newspaper are becoming more targeted and complementary to broader audience newspapers.
Now they have secured readership print publishers will need to rethink how to position their brands towards the advertisers and agencies audience. The advertising revenue model will need some rethinking to regain share of the advertising spend.
Paper, pixels and profits
I'm working on a major project that analyses the relationship between (off-line) print media and online media and came across the Deloitte Media Predictions 2007 brochure. Finally a point-of-view that is not over-estimating the hype of what is happening online, but presenting a more realistic and down-to-earth view of position and development of both media. It is clear that online will not substitute newspapers or magazines. Paper and pixels will coexist -and as Betsy Frank of Time Inc mentions- print will be the new new media. The real innovations take place in the print world. New formats, free newspapers, changed editorial approach, product development and integration of online are some of the domains of innovation. Online publishers are also discovering the value of the printed word. Some of them published the web content in books and boost their revenues in such a way. Print publishers should be more aware of the strengths of the printed word: practical, portable, foldable, inexpensive and lightweight. With 439 million people buying a newspaper everyday print is a real mass medium.
02 March 2007
Print successful online
I have been writing a couple of times about the revised business model of the print industry, now there is strong evidence that print is successful in this change. Print demonstrates to be a strong provider of local news not only in print but also online. Online video is booming as a local advertising medium and the print news providers are taking a major share of this category. Of the US local online video market the print brands take a two-and-half times higher share than the television news providers.
11 February 2007
Kodak changes industry business model

Kodak is introducing new all-in-one printers and inks on the consumer market with a challenging prospects for consumers. Not only are the inks a lot cheaper than the competition, the printed paper will show vibrant colours for a 100 years (compared to 15 today). The most interesting point of the marketing strategy is the price positioning of the consumables. Ink prices can be higher than expensive perfumes, not in the case of Kodak. Instead of discounting on the hardware and making huge profits on the supplies, as companies as HP, Canon and in other industries Gillette do, Kodak says they want to address the key consumers' dissatisfaction: the high cost of inks. It will be fascinating to watch how their strategy will work out.
09 February 2007
Design adds value

This was a full page of The New York Times some days ago, it demonstrates in a strong way the added value of design. The subject is alarming - the death toll in Iraq in one month. The design dramatises the figures in such a way that you can almost "feel" the symbols representing the killed soldiers and citizens. The page tells you so much more than a simple table with figures can. It painfully precise amplifies the magnitude of the problem.
Not paper-less, but Zink

Zero Ink (Zink) technology was presented last week at a technology show in the USA allowing to print full colour images on paper without using ink. The images appear on a sheet of paper after the paper is heated in a special printer. The innovation is in the paper, dye crystals are embedded in the paper and activated when heated. The crystals then colourise, producing high quality images. The shape of the printers will change drastically as no ink cartridges are required with this technology. As the size can be really small applications in mobile phones are foreseen for the end of this year.
21 January 2007
Not enough space on the Internet

It might seem a contradiction but the Internet doesn't offer enough quality sites to advertise! Despite the millions of sites and billions of pages advertisers will not be able to buy space on their favourite sites. In the USA the contextual inventory on car sites was already sold out before the year started. Web pages can't take a lot more ads as they are already cluttered. McKinsey last year reported that 96% of banner ad spendings is concentrated at sites that represent only 30% of traffic. This also applies to video ads and paid search. Lack of space is a phenomenon unknown to the print industry. The Spanish Vogue of last year with over 1000 pages is a great demonstration of the print industry capabilities.
No chance of passing on a cold at the office

As long as you use the innovation of the US company Domtar chances will be reduced. They developed an office paper that is antimicrobial. This paper is protected by a silver compound against the growth of bacteria, odours, fungus, mold and mildew. The silver compound immediately kills the bacteria after contact with the paper. The company sees a new market opening in the healthcare, laboratory, hospitality, education and governemental sectors.
Magazines doing well in USA
The 2006 figures from the Publishers Information Bureau (PIB) in the USA show that total magazine rate card revenues are up 3,8% compared to 2005. Total ad pages were flat at -0,1% compared to the preceeding year. Drugs and remedies is the largest category representing 10% of total magazine ad dollars, Automotive -that is spending a lot online- still buy most ad pages. The strongest growth comes from Retail showing an increase of 20,5% in dollars and 10% in ad pages. This growth figure is surprising given the interest this category has for online media.
13 January 2007
Al Gore's impact on paper

Last week I posted the news about e-paper from the British Plastic Logic company. This week I read about two other developments that are of interest to the paper and media industry. Toshiba has developed a printer and a new substrate that allow a same sheet to be printed up to 500 times. The printer uses thermal technology, a form of plastic sheet and no ink. Toshiba claims that at the production of the printer and using it produces less carbon dioxide. Xerox in the meantime developed an erasable paper. This sounds like a technology developed by Q in the James Bond films. Once printed the paper self-erases in 16-24 hours. "People like paper" says Eric Shrader of PARC (Xerox research center), that

04 January 2007
Production of e-paper takes off

03 January 2007
Lean Wall Street Journal launced

Yesterday was the launch of the revised -what is called the most trusted newspaper- The Wall Street Journal print and online version. About half a million copies were handed out for free and access to the news site was also free. Most apparent change is the smaller size -almost one column- and the way the articles are displayed. Less articles on the cover page and less articles are continuing on following pages to facilitate reading. Today's front page features only four articles that are continuing on two following pages. I mentioned in other posts that newspapers are working hard to get the hybrid model right. WSJ positions the print edition as providing "what the news means" and the online version as "what's happening right now". With almost 800,000 paid subscribers to the online version it is already one of the biggest news sites.
A recent study from Pew Research in the USA shows that 34% of newspaper readers only read a print version and only 4% both print and online. WSJ now offers both in one package -for subscriptions and advertisers- bridging the two reader groups with a complementary product. I'm curious to see how this will evolve commercially and will keep you posted.